Thrive Game

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Thrive Game

Unread postby beppexscienza » Mon May 20, 2013 6:43 am

I found online this project which is called Thrive Game. If you search the net you can find it (I can not put the link here). It seems to be an interesting project, but not yet finished. A game similar to spore but better. Do you know other projects or games like spore?

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Re: Thrive Game

Unread postby Davo » Mon May 20, 2013 9:09 pm

uhohhh..... don't say that around Sven Littkowski!
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Re: Thrive Game

Unread postby CamBen » Mon May 20, 2013 9:11 pm

Why?
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Re: Thrive Game

Unread postby beppexscienza » Tue May 21, 2013 4:53 pm

I do not understand the answer :?
I said this ... http://thrivegame.forum-free.ca/

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Re: Thrive Game

Unread postby CamBen » Tue May 21, 2013 6:39 pm

Spore is creative, even the mods and hacks.
Or, should I say, especially the mods and hacks?

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Re: Thrive Game

Unread postby Davo » Tue May 21, 2013 10:21 pm

read this... http://sporum.wikia.com/wiki/Thrive_Project

the sven mentioned in this 'article' is the same here on the site.
now i cant tell you who did what and this article may be biased, i dont know.
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Re: Thrive Game

Unread postby CamBen » Wed May 22, 2013 8:23 am

That is... Interesting. To say the least. I'm hoping thrive is real though.
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Re: Thrive Game

Unread postby Davo » Wed May 22, 2013 9:41 pm

i try to take everyones word for what they say.
i just treat everyone fairly unless they demand otherwise.
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Re: Thrive Game

Unread postby Emd4600 [ASR] » Thu May 23, 2013 8:29 am

I try the version 0.01.1 (or something like that) , but it never loads.....
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Re: Thrive Game

Unread postby Sven.Littkowski » Fri May 24, 2013 12:09 am

Hi everyone!

Yes, some time ago, I came up with the "Evolutions! project. Initially, it was a response to the poor game-play and childish graphics the Spore developers gave us after so many years of waiting (and then of playing). But to surprise, the "Evolutions!" project received a lot of attention from all the Spore players worldwide. And so it became more: it evolved from a EA-Shocking-Tool to a real project. And it developed a lot of synergy!

There were many people involved in the development of the new game. Ideas over ideas for the concept I had prepared and described even before that. On the "Evolutions!" website we had our own forum, and it thrived. But then, just one person (me) trying to manage an entire forum, well, I couldn't. Somehow, over the time, there was a group of persons crystallizing out as new want-to-be leaders of my project, and declared the concept as their own one, now called "Thrive". My name was deleted from their "Thrive" website, now the game was declared as their own idea.

I don't think, their "Thrive" went very far.

But I am still up for the challenge, if I get the right people around me.

Alright, now you all know.
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Re: Thrive Game

Unread postby Botifier » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:35 pm

just a random question should i help the thrive game or make a new spore like game this seems like a good spot to put this

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Re: Thrive Game

Unread postby Sven.Littkowski » Sat Jun 27, 2015 1:10 am

Thrive is basically just the copy of all our ideas, taken straight from our former forum. When they should reach a certain stage, I reserve the right for legal action through my attorneys, as I can prove with evidence what I am stating. Heck, they use even my very own artwork...

In regards to your question, the decision is yous. You are free to decide. "Evolutions!" won't be Spore-alike, not at all. And since "Evolutions!" is not like Spore, their copy named "Thrive" is neither, too.
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Re: Thrive Game

Unread postby moopli » Fri Jul 03, 2015 3:20 pm

Subject: Thrive Game

Sven.Littkowski wrote:Thrive is basically just the copy of all our ideas, taken straight from our former forum. When they should reach a certain stage, I reserve the right for legal action through my attorneys, as I can prove with evidence what I am stating. Heck, they use even my very own artwork...

In regards to your question, the decision is yous. You are free to decide. "Evolutions!" won't be Spore-alike, not at all. And since "Evolutions!" is not like Spore, their copy named "Thrive" is neither, too.


Hi Sven,

I'm a developer for Thrive, and I was linked here from a recent post on our fan forum. I don't know too much about our project's history, but I do know that our team's original founders had some sort of disagreement with you, and I wanted to get your side of the story.

I also wanted to ask you about your allegations of copyright or trademark or any other kind of infringement. If we're using any of your art anywhere, let us know, and we shouldn't have any problem replacing what is not demonstrably the product of one of our current or past members with content that is original.

If it's some personal beef you have with the original Thrive team, rest assured that there's been a few waves of turnover, as people stop having time to contribute, so not only are there no longer any original founders on the team, but the concepts have diverged very much from where Thrive started.

As for the question of how similar Thrive and Evolutions! were when they started, I could only find one document describing Evolutions!, here: http://evolutions.jamaica-focus.com/d/Evolutions!_Structure.pdf
Looking through the archives of the old Thrive dev forum, I haven't found much which they share in common (beyond them both covering parts of the same "history of the universe and life and civilization" idea, that is), but I'm sure you'd have better info on Evolutions! than I do. As for the question of how similar they are now, well, Thrive has already diverged very much from where it was when it started, often completely changing direction as we find inspiration from different research articles, scientific theories, and other games' mechanics. And given that we completely lost touch with Evolutions! many years ago, I don't know how Evolutions! has progressed, so I don't really know enough about its current state to judge their current similarity, but I am quite sure that Thrive has diverged from Evolutions! further than Evolutions! has diverged from Spore.

Now to clear up some other stuff upthread:
  • The thrivegame.forum-free.ca link is dead, our forum hosts migrated the domain of that website to something else (not gonna post unless someone asks, because I definitely do not want this post to be misunderstood as an advertisement).
  • The picture linked on indiedb above, of the "Disturbance", which I think might be our de-facto mascot, is a piece of concept art and the Disturbance can not yet be created in the game, which is at the time of this posting not far enough in development.
  • I'm pretty sure that the article on the sporum wiki is biased, we do not define ourselves in opposition to Sven, and even in the past, I think the only people that did were some overzealous fans. I really don't know though, I've only been around for about a year and a half. If you like, we could dig around and figure out how much past team members or fans (the distinction was once much more loose, given that we've only really started running a tighter, more professional ship within the past two years or so) have slandered you, Sven, and we could apologize for our predecessors.

I'll take any questions about Thrive, but I'd prefer the discussion at first to stick to the relationship between Thrive and Evolutions!, given the chance I have here to talk to Evolutions! founder.

Davo, if you have any issue with me coming here and posting this and soliciting this discussion, please let me know. I'm a total newbie to this forum, so I don't yet know if this post would be well received.

Thanks for reading!

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Re: Thrive Game

Unread postby rob55rod » Fri Jul 03, 2015 3:34 pm

moopli wrote:The thrivegame.forum-free.ca link is dead, our forum hosts migrated the domain of that website to something else (not gonna post unless someone asks, because I definitely do not want this post to be misunderstood as an advertisement).

Go right ahead and post the link. I'd much rather see it made publicly known than ensure no (nonexistent) forum rules are broken.
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Re: Thrive Game

Unread postby moopli » Fri Jul 03, 2015 3:51 pm

Sure, and a couple links extra for good measure:

http://thrivegame.canadaboard.net/ is the new URL of thrivegame.forum-free.ca, but it's now essentially archived, http://thrivegame.freeforums.net/ is our new fan forum, where you guys could go and post if you like, and http://forum.revolutionarygamesstudio.com is our new dev forum (and http://revolutionarygamesstudio.com/ is our official website), where you can see that we're very serious about designing systems that reach our goal of scientific accuracy balanced with deep gameplay. We also have a dev wiki (thrivegame.wikidot.com) which we update irregularly, and a fan wiki (http://thrivegame.wikia.com/wiki/Thrive_Wiki) which I believe is very out-of-date in many places, but only somewhat out-of-date in others.

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Re: Thrive Game

Unread postby Sven.Littkowski » Fri Jul 03, 2015 7:25 pm

Hi Moopli, and my appreciation for your communication. I do look each few months to the active forums of the Thrive and did so just a few days ago. Maybe you don't know it, but we had our own forum for Evolutions!, too. At the moment, we try to go back in time (server-side backups through the years) to find a copy of our forum database before the time it got hacked and all contents deleted or scrambled.

Basically, the entire structure still today is identical with our Evolutions! - the name of stages, the amount and type of stages, the type of editors, the type of possible life forms even, the way things evolve, and really around 95% of the base of Thrive, unfortunately. New ideas and interpretations are being developed on top of that base, but really the entire base is Evolutions!. At those days, just when we started to reach our own dynamics in development, some guys decided that they must be in charge and get all the fame. The reason that they got rid of me "because we were invaded by spam bots" is obviously a fake reason. In another thread, they stated that the reason for them to copy our game was that "I did not give enough rights to our admins". Well, if that is a reason to copy our ideas... The truth is, it was hard politics and greed for fame that made these few people poisoning our entire group. Consequently, based on the real nature of their reasoning of those days, there were many members opposed to them and their kidnapping of all our ideas. They really copied our entire database and called our contents now "their game". That seems to happen often, when a project seems to promise fame and success within a certain community, like that of the Spore fans. There were or even still are members in your group that can confirm what I am saying hereabout those dirty take-over games and game structure. It is that member that was strong behind the development of Evolutions! as a game (so he has incredibly lot of credit on it, too). I got my share of frustration and hate, you can believe me. Most (but not all) of the ideas were even my very own ones - especially the game systematics.

It makes not yet much sense to talk much about it. In order to prove, first we have to get our database back. Once we find a functioning version, we can easily prove through all the coded time stamps of each database entry, that we had all the ideas long before these guys copied our intellectual property and sold it as "their own one". That is now the task of me and the others around me - to re-establish a functioning copy of our old database. And then we can take further steps.

And don't misunderstand me: our intention is not to stop any development. In fact, it is the interest of all people who like games like what Spore should have been, to have a game of the nature we talk here about. Again: stopping the development is no option. but things need to be corrected, for the peace of my soul and for the future success of everyone who is part of it. Just the document you mention is already the evidence, that the systematic of the game was already my concept. But we put it already in a much clearer structure before we suddenly got invaded by these mysterious spam bots and then the hacking of our database that resulted in the destruction of all our contents. From that time, Thrive seemed to be the only one having these contents.

On this planet, too many things happen in ways that are very unfair, and even criminal. We have to make sure, that this does not apply to our game, as we want good headlines in the public, and not dirty legal fights that just take a lot of resources. Understand my position: how bitter it is, year after year, to see my game and ideas, promoted by others in their name and me excluded. my soul cries and cries and cries.
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Re: Thrive Game

Unread postby moopli » Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:55 pm

I don't think there will be any legal troubles at all between Evolutions! and Thrive, simply because I think that they are different enough from each other. You say that 95% of "the base" of Thrive is the same as Evolutions!, well, I would like to know exactly what you consider "the base". Do you discard the game mechanics we design that are completely different from what you were planning to put in Evolutions!, leaving only the broad platitudes like "you will start as a unicellular eukaryote on a planet"? If, when Thrive started, it was a pure, unadulterated clone of Evolutions!, then Thrive is by necessity now very very different from Evolutions!, simply because Thrive has changed very much over the project's lifetime.

But perhaps I misunderstand what you are claiming. Could you clarify for me some concrete examples of how Thrive is too similar to Evolutions!, and where you're getting your info? You cite the document I referenced, but I disagree with your analysis -- the systematic of the game, wherein you control your organism/species/civilization in various stages corresponding roughly to various important milestones in the development of humanity, is an innovation not of your own, but of Spore's. Evolutions! adds many many more editors, yet Thrive will only have 3: microscopic-organism, macroscopic-organism, and technological-object. Evolutions! describes a Behaviour Editor, for example, and we plan to incorporate a behaviour editor into Thrive once necessary, but the only thing they share is the name. Much like how computer programmers love to call everything a node, we name the behaviour editor as such because it edits behaviour, it is simply a natural and reasonable name. But I'm tired, and I don't want to argue all those particulars right now, so I'll just wait until you have some more concrete examples, and take your word for what you say.

Given your problems with your database, if Thrive is 95% the same as Evolutions!, why haven't you simply reconstructed your work by copying Thrive? I believe (but I would have to check with the team) that we release our game design documents under CC BY-NC-SA, as an act of good faith to any who wish to follow in our footsteps. Given that you believe all of our recent brainstorming has resulted in something that is eerily similar to whatever is hiding somewhere in your database, it might be expedient to just copy our work, change what's different, and continue your work in parallel.

A word of advice, though, from one game designer/developer to another -- ideas are cheap. It's very easy to have similar, vague ideas until you actually try implementing something. As that happens, ideas start to diverge, more and more. Right now, we're busy prototyping a host of different ideas, and I can guarantee you that none of those ideas will emerge unchanged. Since you're serious about seeing Evolutions! succeed, I suggest you start prototyping, do your best to go beyond whatever you had whenever you lost that database, and soon enough the information in your database will be almost completely obsolete, even if you manage to someday resuscitate it. This is one big reason why I doubt that they'll end up being the same -- as we develop the game, the game will change, and as you develop your game, it too will change.

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Re: Thrive Game

Unread postby Sven.Littkowski » Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:09 am

Hi, thanks for the reply.

Just let's wait until an older version of the Evolutions! database has been found. It will be much easier then to re-publish the entire forum, and that will show all the similarities between original and Thrive. Time stamps will further prove the argument. And statements from the hosting company will be made available, too. Until then, any discussion would just be emotional and not provable.

I don't like the idea of copying anything, even under these circumstances. The copying thing is something that others might do, but not me. There are ways i can go, and there are other ways I cannot go.

Or would you believe me, if I wrote now, that I self invented the idea of the Behavior Editor? And many other things. It was been part of our forum, long before the contents were been copied. Even members within your group can confirm this. For now, I don't want to go any further into this, as it hurts.
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Re: Thrive Game

Unread postby moopli » Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:58 am

I completely believe you when you say that you yourself invented the idea of the behaviour editor. The concept of "tool to edit the behaviour of a game entity" does not require any great leap of imagination, so I am inclined to believe practically anybody who tells me that they came up with said concept without outside help.

The behaviour editor described in http://evolutions.jamaica-focus.com/d/E ... ucture.pdf is more specific -- however, this behaviour editor works completely differently to the behaviour editor in Thrive's design. Thrive's behaviour editor design, instead of tuning values like "aggression" and "curiosity" as Evolutions! does, provides an interface for graphically programming instinctive behaviour. This idea, too, is not novel -- we're following proven designs like the graphical programming tools for Lego Mindstorms, Labview, and a host of circuit-design tools.

But I'll stop pressing that issue, I understand that it's distressing to defend your claims when the evidence is missing. Can you tell me more about the database problems? What was the url of the forum? When did it go down?

Sven.Littkowski wrote:Even members within your group can confirm this.


I'm afraid that's not possible, as I said above, there are no longer any members of our team who had previously worked on Evolutions!. How were project responsibilities and control shared between the members of your team? Who owned the ideas? How were disagreements handled? I'm sure we could wait for the database to be rolled back and the forum to come back online, but I would not be surprised if that never happens, so I would like to hear your side of the story.

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Re: Thrive Game

Unread postby Sven.Littkowski » Sat Jul 04, 2015 1:48 pm

Let's really wait for the database. I will feel much more delighted when having the (publicly accessible) contents of our database behind my statements.
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